Religious discussions
One time I gave my reason for attending a particular church by saying "They disagree with me the least". My fellow conversant thought this a terrible reason. He said he attended a particular church because they taught the truth and taught the Bible.
The dear fellow went on his way feeling superior without ever realizing we'd basically both said the same thing. He was attending a church that taught the truth as he had come to believe it, and the Bible the way he had been taught to interpret it. In other words, they disagreed with him the least.
I have often been criticized for talking about my interpretations of the Bible. The theme seems to be that I should just read it for what it says rather than trying to interpret it. Now isn't that a silly idea. If your driving down the road and see a red colored octagonal sign with these four odd shapes "STOP" in white against the red background, ceasing forward motion is the interpretation we put on that metallic placard mounted on a post. We recognize the four shapes as letters, and in that configuration they form a word that means we are to come to a complete halt. Of course we've been used to these signs most of our lives, and we know what it means without conscious thought today. We know what it means because that is the interpretation our minds put on that particular item, even though we don't have to consciously read and interpret it to understand we are to stop.
Anything you read only takes on meaning when your mind interprets the material your are reading. If you didn't need to interpret writing to gain full meaning from it, you would be able to gain full meaning from writings in any and all languages on Earth. I interpret the Bible.
To me the Bible is the best guidebook to spiritual development I've ever read, and I much prefer reading in the King James versions than any modernized text. I say versions because there have been nearly a hundred thousand changes in the King James version in the last century. Comparing my 1834 version with my 1961 version shows massive amounts of changes. Where I differ from most others living here in the Bible belt, I don't make a graven image of that book. I don't consider it the inerrant Word of God, and thereby grant it a reverence akin to worship. Too much of the Old Testament reflects more the ignorances of the writers than of an All Knowing God.
Just one nitpicking little detail from the very beginning as an example - the creation story. In those days it was believed the world was flat and the universe revolved around it. The Sun was the greater light to rule the day and the Moon the lesser light to rule the night. Since it is daylight before the Sun comes over the horizon, and still light for a while after it has set, they didn't understand that day was caused by the sun. Therefore in Genisis they had no trouble with the idea that on the first day of creation God could separate the light from the darkness and call the light day and the darkness night, yet not create the Sun, Moon and stars until the fourth day. To them the Sun didn't cause the day, but was just the greater light to rule the day. Lights on the firmament of the heavens. In the same belief they saw no problem in the idea of it taking five of the six days of creation just for the Earth, but whipping out the entire rest of the Universe in one day. Much of the details of the Bible, and especially the Old Testament, do reflect these ignorances. I think if the Bible was indeed the inerrant Word of God, He/She would have written it accurately.
The milk and the meat of the New Testament, especially the red letter sections. The more you understand the more it has to say to you. I grew up in the Christian religion, and the older I get the more I understand when I reread some of the sections I've read countless times. Enough to realize that most churches in the Christian faith are teaching a religion about Jesus, rather than the religion of Jesus. When he said "follow me" he didn't mean "worship me". He meant follow me "All these things I do, you can do, and greater things than this can you do".
I have a lot of other problems with "traditional" Christianity, but I'll leave that for another day.
We'll pass the collection trays now.
The dear fellow went on his way feeling superior without ever realizing we'd basically both said the same thing. He was attending a church that taught the truth as he had come to believe it, and the Bible the way he had been taught to interpret it. In other words, they disagreed with him the least.
I have often been criticized for talking about my interpretations of the Bible. The theme seems to be that I should just read it for what it says rather than trying to interpret it. Now isn't that a silly idea. If your driving down the road and see a red colored octagonal sign with these four odd shapes "STOP" in white against the red background, ceasing forward motion is the interpretation we put on that metallic placard mounted on a post. We recognize the four shapes as letters, and in that configuration they form a word that means we are to come to a complete halt. Of course we've been used to these signs most of our lives, and we know what it means without conscious thought today. We know what it means because that is the interpretation our minds put on that particular item, even though we don't have to consciously read and interpret it to understand we are to stop.
Anything you read only takes on meaning when your mind interprets the material your are reading. If you didn't need to interpret writing to gain full meaning from it, you would be able to gain full meaning from writings in any and all languages on Earth. I interpret the Bible.
To me the Bible is the best guidebook to spiritual development I've ever read, and I much prefer reading in the King James versions than any modernized text. I say versions because there have been nearly a hundred thousand changes in the King James version in the last century. Comparing my 1834 version with my 1961 version shows massive amounts of changes. Where I differ from most others living here in the Bible belt, I don't make a graven image of that book. I don't consider it the inerrant Word of God, and thereby grant it a reverence akin to worship. Too much of the Old Testament reflects more the ignorances of the writers than of an All Knowing God.
Just one nitpicking little detail from the very beginning as an example - the creation story. In those days it was believed the world was flat and the universe revolved around it. The Sun was the greater light to rule the day and the Moon the lesser light to rule the night. Since it is daylight before the Sun comes over the horizon, and still light for a while after it has set, they didn't understand that day was caused by the sun. Therefore in Genisis they had no trouble with the idea that on the first day of creation God could separate the light from the darkness and call the light day and the darkness night, yet not create the Sun, Moon and stars until the fourth day. To them the Sun didn't cause the day, but was just the greater light to rule the day. Lights on the firmament of the heavens. In the same belief they saw no problem in the idea of it taking five of the six days of creation just for the Earth, but whipping out the entire rest of the Universe in one day. Much of the details of the Bible, and especially the Old Testament, do reflect these ignorances. I think if the Bible was indeed the inerrant Word of God, He/She would have written it accurately.
The milk and the meat of the New Testament, especially the red letter sections. The more you understand the more it has to say to you. I grew up in the Christian religion, and the older I get the more I understand when I reread some of the sections I've read countless times. Enough to realize that most churches in the Christian faith are teaching a religion about Jesus, rather than the religion of Jesus. When he said "follow me" he didn't mean "worship me". He meant follow me "All these things I do, you can do, and greater things than this can you do".
I have a lot of other problems with "traditional" Christianity, but I'll leave that for another day.
We'll pass the collection trays now.
posted by Fish-2 at 8:48 PM
14 Comments:
It can be confusing read, for sure.
Like most things in life, I try to keep it as simple as possible and I figure that John 3:16 is about as plain as it can get for a simple mind like mine, so that's where my foundation is.
Now my interpretation of John 3:16 is....
Oh never mind. That's why there are a lot of different churches. We each have to find our own belief system.
AHA! YES!!!
I believe that yes, the Bible was inspired by God -BUT, it was written by man and since man is fallible - the Bible shouldn't be read literally....
The whole creation story of 7 days - written so a "simple" mind could understand that...whose to say that one day didn't really equal 1 million years?
And I like what you said, Fish - about Jesus saying 'Follow me' NOT 'worship me'....and I try and find my own way through all this religion stuff I think I will use that.
Always a good idea to give the sermon before passing 'the plate'.
Especially a common sense sermon.
Hey Fish! Glad to see you're back.
If we follow Jesus, we follow Him in to Servant Status...
I'm not doing a very good job being that servant.
Old Testament is man's attempt at Godliness through laws and rituals... and proof that it couldn't be done
New Testament presents the gift through God's Grace
I guess that's way to simple, huh
Yep, that's why I haven't found a church that I fit into yet. I fit into the Biblical ones politically and socially but not theologically and the less strictly Biblical ones are too fully of lefties. I guess I'll just have to go worship God in my forest again.
"We'll pass the collection trays now."..... got change for a 20 ... LOL
I tend to stay away from religious discussions ... gets me in trouble all the time.. ;-)
I don't really go along with all the teachings of my church either, Fish, but I dearly love my church family. I have never found a denomination I believe in 100%, but they do good work for this community without being complete moonbats.
My very liberal Priest retired, and our little church is coming along very nicely. :)
karmyn r, we all have to "find our own way through this", or not try to think about it and just go with what someone else believes and tells us to believe.
bb, Passing the plate first would get you an average take each week. Passing it last and a good sermon would get you more, but a poor sermon might get zip.
walker, thanks, glad blogger finally let me out of solitary.
pamela, truth be known it's probably far simpler even than that. If we could fully understand "let go and let God" for instance.
Patrick, my little woods with the sunlight streaming down is prettier than any stain glass window I've ever seen.
ABF, coward (grin)
Gayle it's great you have a church home you can like. Most of the churches around this area are into more emotionalized displays than actual teaching. As one member said about an evangelist, "He don't make much sense, but boy can he shout".
The BearWaller Hollar Church of the Latter Day Snake Handlers always has an open door. I've never really been sure what they believe in, but I like the way they jump around and sing.
(glad you're back Fish)
darbi
Thanks Darbi. Say, would them happen to be rattlesnakes? I like the taste of a good rattlesnake cooked up well.
Fish-2: God created mankind and mankind created religion, some good, some bad and some just plain silly. Do you suppose God is having a good laugh?
Abouna, One would have to assume if God is the author of all things, He's also the creator of humor.
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